Last week all the local news channels did some kind of story about the whole Christmas vs. Holiday debate. Fox news even used The Death of Christmas for a headline. I hate to tell these people this, but Christmas died a long time ago. One guy was complaining because his town Christmas parade was now being called the Holiday Parade. I remember hearing him say “I could see this happening in some place like San Francisco, but not here”. Because, you know here we don’t tolerate people of religions other than Christian.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t most major religions celebrate something around this time of year? Last I remembered Hanukah was celebrated during the month of December. Buddhists celebrate Bodhi Day on the eighth. African-American’s celebrate Kwanzaa, which isn’t so much about religion as it is about respecting and learning about African-American history. The point is that the month of December holds a number of Holidays, not just the Christian ones.
The thing that kills me is the stupidity of Christmas vs. Holiday issue. Who really gives a rat’s ass? The debate is a time waster. Those people are sitting around complaining about semantics when they could be doing something useful, like helping out a homeless shelter, donating food to the local food bank, or helping the little old lady next door by taking her trash out on a freezing day.
Bah-humbug!
What’s funny to me is that these people who have a problem with it are only now noticing that things are Holiday related instead of Christmas related. IIRC, this shift really picked up speed about five years ago. THAT would have been the time to notice and complain. I mean, if you’re into that sort of bigoted complaining, at least do it in a timely fashion!
I was impressed the other day, driving around my small town, that the city put up lights, ornaments, reindeer, and angels, but no nativities and no crosses. I thought, good for you, little hick town! Congratulations on showing some tolerance!
Amen, Cindy! They really are making a mountain out of a molehill. Since when did Christmas need to be pushed in everyone’s face at every consumer-driven outlet in order to be considered legitimate, anyway?
And irretarded of the fact that “holiday” means “holy day,” how would they like it if all the stores and other venues started wishing everyone a Happy Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, Festivus, etc., in addition to Merry Christmas? And since when did the celebration of Dec. 25th get extended to the whole freakin’ month (and right up to the buttcrack of Thanksgiving)?
There’s just no pleasing the religious right when it comes to such petty matters. They WANT to feel persecuted.
What gets me about the whole “you better say Merry Christmas or else we won’t shop here anymore” crusade against department stores is that by having such a crusade these so-called “Christians” are actually pushing to commercialize Jesus — not Christmas, which was commercialized by department stores decades ago, but Jesus Christ himself. Their claim being that because Jesus helps Wal-Mart sell DVD players, Wal-Mart should re-pay Christ’s “blessings” by saying Merry Christmas. Pastors used to work hard to keep commerce out of Christmas and now fundementalists want to make Christmas all about commerce. WTF?
Obviously, the message of the Dr. Seuss book How the Grinch Stole Christmas is lost on these people. Material goods are not what Christmas is about. Buying more crap from Wal-Mart does not make you a better Christian…even if you say “Merry Christmas” while doing it.
I don’t care what you say: Merry Christmas, Xmas, Happy Holidays, Christmas tree, Holiday tree, whatever. But, I’m almost to the point where I think that those plastic trees should only be called Christmas Trees. Nothing says fake outrage by fake Christians over a fake controversy like a fake tree.
I guess the world needs to complain about trivial issues, heaven forbid they have to face the real problems that face our country such as why the hell sexual preditors are allowed out of prison. Rehabilitaion my ass!
I agree with you all, but you miss the point. When I listen to the pro-Merry Christmas group is more about having political correctness shoved up their butt than religious fevor.
Merry Christmas to all, and if you don’t like it………….well…………tough. I am not known for being politically correct.
Wow, talk about missing the point….
Yeah, no kidding. Say Merry Christmas all you like–but a city or store advocating a religious stance is just not nice or smart. Not nice if it’s a city–excludes people. Not smart if it’s a store–um, excludes people.
See, the thing about the whole “having political correctness shoved up their butt” argument is that it’s terribly weak.
Cindy and I have been saying “Merry Christmas” (when we’ve had occassion to say it) since the holiday season started; we’ve not once said “Happy Holidays”, and it’s not that we do it because we’re “not politically correct”. We do it because we tend to take each holiday separately, as it comes along. We don’t get bent out shape whenever someone says “Happy Holidays” or whatever. “We just don’t care. (Wish us a Happy Kwanzaa, if you feel like it. We’ll know what you mean.) Most people feel as we do, that the “controversy” is ridiculous.
This is exactly why the “more about having political correctness shoved up their butt than religious fevor” position doesn’t stand up. You can’t just listen to what people say; you have to watch what people do. They can claim that position all they want, but the fact is that it’s only the Christian fundamentalists doing it. It’s the Religious Reich versus The Department Stores. Everyone else is caught in the middle.
People can rant and rail against “political correctness”, but it’s a cop-out buzzword used as a pathetic stand-in for what they don’t really want to admit to or express. The term is meaninglessness because it has developed such negative connotations over the years (partly deserved from overuse by the Left, and not understood — and therefore seen as a threat — by the Right).
The flip-side to this weak-ass anti-”political correctness” position is that just because you go around saying “Merry Christmas” doesn’t mean that you’re really “not known for being politically correct”. For example, I’m guessing you don’t go around in casual conversation or in public (or at work) calling black people “niggers”. And most of the people who claim to not be PC don’t go around saying “nigger” either. The question, the thing that gets passed the “PC” claim, then, is “Why not, if they’re so anti-PC?”
Is a sign that reads “EVERYONE WELCOME!” instead of “WE WELCOME WHITES, NIGGERS, SPICKS, AND SLANTED-EYED GOOKS!” considered politically correct, just because it is inclusive without calling attention to the differences between those being included?
I haven’t heard one argument yet showing how the phrase “Happy Holidays” excludes Christmas. Where has there been one case of a sales clerk saying, “Happy Holidays except for Christmas”? Where is the big “secret plan” to call December 25th something other than Christmas, or Christmas Day? What, Holiday Day? I’m dreaming of a white Holiday? Only 6 more days to Holiday. Who’s saying this? The answer is nobody.
It’s a fake controversy.
I’m not Christian, but it doesn’t bother me a bit when someone says “Merry Christmas” to me. I enjoy Christmas as a secular holiday, and I appreciate good wishes of any sort.
If I’m speaking to a diverse group of people, I say “Happy Holidays” because I don’t want to exclude anybody, but also because I think Happy Holidays really means “Hey, enjoy the next two weeks, whatever your religious or cultural background might be.”
Only 6 more days to Holiday. Who’s saying this? The answer is nobody.
Yep… nobody is saying that… they are just saying “6 more shopping days”.
or
How about the retailer’s Marshall Fields’ term “Gift Giving Week”?
Nowhere do they say Christmas even in conjunction with Santa Claus.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/051207/clw517.html?.v=18
http://www.fields.com/gifts/OnlineShopping/FL?Dsp=801
BTW… If you think Christians are far-right, you might enjoy the wonderful tolerance that other religions, such as Islam, exhibits.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,179158,00.html
later…
If you plan on leaving comments, please be sure you read everything through and think before you write. Please be sure to also read the articles of links you provide. Fox news is not a a credible news source. You might as well be linking to the tabloids.
No one here has said that all Christians are far-right. The ones making the big stink over this stupid debate are the far-right intolerant Christians (as opposssed to the tolerant ones – there are some of them out there).
You seem to be missing the point of this entry T.J.
Fox news is not a a credible news source.
So who do you consider a credible news source?
CNN
BBC
CBS
The Dallas Morning News
All of these stories are virtually the same because it is an AP story. And this AP story also has these quotes from Iran’s leader, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
“He also has issued stinging criticisms of Israel, calling for the Jewish state to be “wiped off the map” and describing the Nazi Holocaust as a “myth.”
The media is almost solely dependent on the Associated Press. That’s where most of your news comes from. There’s just multiple subscribers (the MSM) who publish and broadcast it. Fox included.
The thing that kills me is the stupidity of Christmas vs. Holiday issue. Who really gives a rat’s ass?
As for the point of the post (as well as the comments), I did read it/them. I don’t think it is stupid. Also I care. After following the comments for several days, I just thought that I would voice my opinion.
Do you like USA Today? They have an interesting poll just out as of last night.
I really don’t feel that I was missing the point(s).
later…
I’m not really sure what your point is, TJ, assuming you have one. And just so you don’t waste any more of your time, you’ll never convince me that blatant commercialism and conspicuous consumption are needed to convey the true meaning of Christmas. Why you feel your religion is such that it must get its validity from department stores is beyond me.
There is a big difference between Christians and “Christians” or Christian fundamentalists. A duck wearing a t-shirt with “Dog” written on it, does not make it a dog.
And while I do think it’s a bad idea to ban Western music in Iran, I’ll remind you that we have a much longer history in this country of civic and religious leaders trying to ban our own music, many times citing that the music is “un-Christian”. I’m sure there are more than a few people in Iran who enjoy listening to Western music, who would consider themselves good Muslims.
Everyone who has posted here (me, Cindy, everyone) is pro-Merry Christmas. It sounds to me that you’re just angry because we’re not anti-Other Things, too. I doubt you’ll make much of a difference when you cite intolerance in others but then exhibit it yourself.
Merry Christmas!
Yes actually you did miss the point. The point is this is a non-issue. Christmas, holidays whatever you want to call it is what you make of it. Does it really matter what the media tells you to think?
Saying Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays should make no difference in the sentiment behind the words. Either way you’re spreading good will to others.
I do think corporations and public institutes should be more conscious of saying Happy Holidays in order to include all religions, because (in case you haven’t noticed) America is a melting pot of all races and religions. That’s one of the things that makes us so great. America should be leading by example. “Hey, look at us. We all have different beliefs, but we’re trying to be accepting of each other and respect one another’s beliefs.”
T.J. you may have read the entry and comments posted here, but you didn’t think about them and that’s all I’m asking you to do before you jump on the injustice high horse.
You have missed the point. Just because you don’t feel that you’ve missed the point, doesn’t mean that you haven’t.
Each media outlet edits wire stories for various reasons. Sometimes (few and far between) they run them straight, but mostly they edit them for space or to convey a different message than the original piece intended, leaving out key words, phrases, and sentences. Including or excluding information changes the story. Sometimes they change verbs and adjectives, which has the same effect.
The biggest, most current example of this is the RNC claim that Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter both signed Executive Orders to allow warrantless surveillance.
What they say was signed: âThe Attorney General is authorized to approve physical searches, without a court orderâ?
What was really signed: “the Attorney General is authorized to approve physical searches, without a court order, to acquire foreign intelligence information for periods of up to one year, if the Attorney General makes the certifications required by that section.”
That means that the Attorney General must certify that searches will not involve the premises, information, material, or property of a United States citizen.
Big difference there. Well, media outlets do the same kind of thing (sometimes they don’t mean to, and sometimes they do), but the credible ones do it less often and try to edit without changing the meaning and impact of the story as much as possible.
Since I tend to say “Merry Christmas” much more than I say “Happy Holidays” you can say that I have a Merry Christmas preference, too, given my choices of season greetings. That’s in line with the USA Today poll, but it doesn’t tell us how many people are getting their panties in a twist over it. Only that most prefer one over the other. The writer of the piece makes several inferences from the numbers, although we don’t know what the actual wording of the questions was. It’s like you saying you prefer hamburger over pizza, and then I say, you hate pizza because you chose hamburger over it. Could be that you like both.
The Christmas vs. Holiday debate is a good diversion from issues of homelessness and poverty, which are usually more prevalent this time of year. I mean, look how much time we’ve pissed away with it.
It’s really a brilliant move by “Christians”, turning seasonal sentiments of goodwill into a divisive tool of ill-will and fiendishly self-inflicted persecution.
Well, enjoy it while you can. Christmas will be here soon and the faux debate will be over, and you’ll have to come up with some other reason about why you’re so good, and we’re so bad and intolerant.
You seem to have a very active imagination in that regard, so I’m sure you’ll come up with something.
In the meantime, don’t be too sad. Christmas will be here again next year, no matter how afraid you are that it won’t come, I promise it will. You can’t steal Christmas. Have you learned nothing from Dr. Seuss?
I hope that on Christmas Day, while you’re surrounded by your loved one, and the kids are opening their gifts, you realise just how silly you are for ever thinking that any of it depended on a parade or someone telling you “Merry Christmas” or “Happy Holidays” or “Have a nice day” or “Go fuck yourself.”
The biggest problem for the pro-Merry Christmas Only / Anti-Anything Other Than Merry Christmas crowd is that they are taking something they claim to be defending and shitting all over it.
When most people — that is, MOST — people say “Merry Christmas” they mean it in the spirit that it should reflect: Hey, Merry Christmas! I wish you good will, and the best of everything this world has to offer.
But now, spooked by imagined attacks from what they (and you, TJ) claim to be anti-Christian types (although, you eagerly point to an article which says “The ‘Merry Christmas’ preference appears to cross religious boundaries, including non-Christians and respondents who say they have no religious affiliations“) you have some very vocal people running around saying “Merry Christmas” as if the greeting is a weapon, saying “Merry Christmas” in a vindictive manner: Hey, Merry Christmas! And I’m saying Merry Christmas because I’m fed up with all your politically correct Happy Holiday bullshit! Merry Christmas! Merry Christmas! How do you like that, you godless fuckers! You can’t stop me from saying Merry Christmas! Merry Christmas or else! Merry Christmas or tough shit! Take that!
The spirit of goodwill toward all is gone, replaced by people going around saying “Merry Christmas” because they are motivated by what they believe is taking a stand against “politically correctness”, and not by the sincere wishing of goodwill toward people.
You’re the only one here trying to take Christmas away from you.
Merry Christmas!